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As he wraps up a Vatican meeting marked by sharp debates over sex and morality, Pope Francis on Sunday will honor one of his most controversial predecessors by beatifying Pope Paul VI, who is most famous for reaffirming the Catholic church's ban on artificial contraception. They were convinced that the ban would be lifted and that Paul was shutting down the reforms that had begun a few years earlier with momentous changes adopted by the Second Vatican Council.

"For us, Paul VI was the great light," Francis said in an interview in June, referring to his years as a young priest.

In addition, like Francis, Paul was a vocal champion of the church's social justice teachings, and he sought to embed those concepts as foundation stones of Catholic doctrine.

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I'm talking about in record sales and tours and all this. But as far as the modern-day world, they were not a great performing band. Whatever these sweet young things who dig Dylan say, I bet they don't understand much of what he is doing. You would say to (Keith) Moon, if you were in a session with him, , and he (couldn't)... Their records are nice, you know; some of their records are very good. I love Jimmy Page, but as a band, no, with John Bonham thundering down the highway in an uncontrolled 18-wheeler. It's not really the 100% of everything I'm interested in. No one seems to be doing anything very innovative in stadium shows. Obviously, the attraction is there, until they all shoot each other - and they're doing a good job of it. What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there. It just doesn't grab I'm not in love with things at the moment. There's a lot of angst in a lot of it, which is one of the great things to tap into. The Chili Peppers have a sort of sense of the theatrical, but they can't take it anywhere. Everybody wants to be Neil Young, and Pearl Jam is trying to drive ticket prices down.

We play a lot of his LPs, Brian and I, and quite a lot of his lyrics don't mean anything to us. He was an incredible drummer, but only with Pete Townshend. But onstage they're supposed to be fantastic but I've never seen them.... I've seen David Bowie, I've seen Talking Heads and the Police, and I mean, is that all there really is? I'm still waiting for something I haven't already heard. If you want to hear good rap, you should listen to early Jamaican dub, which is some really interesting stuff. All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they're happy. I was never crazy about Nirvana - too angst-ridden for me. Doing that, they will never get themselves on a stage this big. It's gratifying that people are realizing rock 'n' roll is still vibrant.

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They were so big that to be competitive with them was impossible. Maybe they were in the days of the Cavern, when they were coming up as a club band. And they did have this really good onstage persona. They were this forerunning, breakthrough item, and that's hard to overestimate. I leant him to Bob for six months, and that was in 2001... That guy's got white line fever, he works constantly. And I love Pete Townshend, but I always thought the Who were a crazy band, anyway. I mean, I haven't seen Sly and the Family Stone onstage. But I always felt there was something a little hollow about it, you know? I think (Robert Plant is) doing better stuff now — he did that that thing with (Alison Krauss). I saw him with David Bowie on that last tour - the band was pretty ropey, I thought. I mean, even WE'VE been influenced by the Velvet Underground... I'll tell you exactly what we pinched from the very first Velvet Underground album. You always knew with John, you're gonna be on the end of a lot of sarcastic remarks that you weren't always in the mood for. But I haven't been interested in rock for years - I mean interested in it in the way of wanting to talk about it.

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